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MOS - Conference Transcripts
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MOS Chat Log--Nov. 11, 1993
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MOS Chat Log 111193
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Rich24 : I have a network with a SE/30 as a server running
System 7. The other machines are on System 6.
AFL Bear : Rich, is that System 7.0 or later?
Rich24 : The 3 other SE/30's sign on ok via AppleShare. 7.1.
Rich24 : I also have 3 pluses on the network. Some don't
"remember" to sign on via AppleShare. Some remember.
I can sign on with the forgetful ones manually, but
they just won't remember.
AFL Bear : By remember, you mean the checkbox in the Chooser?
Rich24 : Yes.
AFL Bear : System 6, eh?
Rich24 : I use system 6 because of RAM and because some of the
programs I use are not System 7 savvy.
AFL Bear : Try running Network Software Installer 1.4.1 and if
there is a file called AppleShare Prep in your System
Folder or Preferences Folder, trash it on the machines
that don't remember.
Rich24 : I thought Appleshare was needed. Is there any placed in
the Preferences folder?
AFL Bear : AppleShare Prep, if it's there, is a sort of
preferences file for AppleShare.
Rich24 : Will it be remade when I boot up?
AFL Bear : I'm not sure if it is in the System Folder or Prefs
folder under System 6. No, you'll need to reset your
checkboxes.
Rich24 : In the system folder.
AFL Bear : Or rather yes, it will be made automatically. But your
previous choices will be lost.
Rich24 : I'll try it - thanks for the help!
AFL Bear : Great - let me know how you make out, OK?
Rich24 : I'll get back to you.
AFL Bear : Skier, you were up next - GA
ACoolSkier : Oh... I am having a problem.. Whenever I quit from
an application my computer freezes...What might be
causing this>
AFA GeneS : Which application, Skier?
ACoolSkier : Most of the applications I use...
AFL Bear : Have you tried this with extensions off? ga
ACoolSkier : And I have 16 megs of RAM so I don't think that is
the problem.
Rich24 : Have you rebuilt the desktop?
AFA GeneS : Give it a try (hold down the shift key when you
restart), and see what happens.
ACoolSkier : Cuz if my ext's are off I can't run my CD-ROM. And that
is what I use most of the time.
AFA GeneS : This is only for a test, Skier.
AFL Bear : Extensions off would be the first step in isolating
the problem, though.
ACoolSkier : Oh... Ok...
AFC Daniel : How about trying Extension Manager.
AFL Bear : Once you know it's an extension or not, you have a
direction to travel.
AFL Bear : If you find that the problem stops with extensions off,
you know what to do, right?
AFA GeneS : Skier: If you want to e-mail us a list of all your
Extensions/Control Panels and version numbers, we can
help you further.
AFL Bear : You do what Gene says. :)
ACoolSkier : Ok..Thanx!
AFA GeneS : If you've installed older software (say from an old
Mac), that could be the first point to explore. Good
luck.
AFL Bear : Before we go any further, I want to say hello to
everyone here and to *officially* turn the chat over to
AFA GeneS to make the regular introductions and to host
the rest of the chat!
AFA GeneS : Well, officially, welcome. Since we have a light crowd
tonight we'll dispense with protocol for now. But if
the discussion gets out of hand, we will put it in
effect. Basically, try not to interrupt a question and
answer, unless you have a comment to make about it. If
we do it that way, we'll do just fine. If anyone has a
question or comment to start the "official" ball
rolling, let's go for it.
SandersM : I had a question about a new utility I saw in a
catalog, called OptiMem...
JCooke : Ditto.
AFA GeneS : Yes, Sanders, what would you like to know. I've tried
it.
SandersM : Does it work? It sounds great, but I can imagine the
mischief it could wreak on a system.
AFA GeneS : Here's the scheme: OptiMem is a Control Panel that
examines a program's minimum memory allocation, and
opens a program with minimum memory. If a program needs
more memory, OptiMem allocates it from the available
pool of free memory, and releases it when it's no
longer needed. The Control Panel is configured to
recognize some programs, but not all. If a program
doesn't handle memory properly, I can see where it can
cause problems. The program supposedly monitors memory
use of software to get around this.
SandersM : ...all of which slows down the application's
operation?
AFA GeneS : I didn't see a slowdown. But, as the programmers among
us will state. I can see where there may be hazards to
this if it's not done really carefully.
SandersM : Did it crash your system, when you used it?
AFA GeneS : Sanders: I didn't see much untoward behavior, but then
again, I used it only briefly and I really have no
problem in terms of needing to stretch RAM very far.
SandersM : I'm not a programmer, but I know enough to be wary of
this product, although it sounds great if it works.
AFA GeneS : I did talk with the programmer, who seemed reasonably
savvy about the way things work. So perhaps it may
work. But I'd get it with a money back guarantee :)
SandersM : Thanks, Gene, for the info...maybe I'll give it a
whirl, and report back if problems arise.
EGMiller : Gene - did OptiMem really make much of a difference
in how many apps could be kept open?
AFA GeneS : EG: By opening an application in its minimum memory
allotment, it could make a difference.
SandersM : Thanks again!
JCooke : What resources are available for a person who works
for a Mac help desk that is just growing?
AFA GeneS : JCooke: You mean to diagnose problems?
JCooke : Software support for sys software and applications
AFA GeneS : You'd want to get a set of hard drive diagnostic
tools, maybe a program like Help to check for potential
conflicts. Maybe even one of the hardware diagnostic
utilities, like Mac EKG and a big bottle of aspirin.
Also, a program like Conflict Catcher II from our
friend Jeffrey Robbin is helpful in rooting out
possible conflicts.
JCooke : I do telephone support only at my help desk. Those
utilities help but I need more.
AFA GeneS : As to a telephone source you need to keep up to date
about compatibilities and such. Is this for a company
or a network or what?
JCooke : I support several companies via 800 numbers.
JamesR115 : Anyone know how I can ZAP the PRam with System 7.1?
Used to be Command-Option Control Panels!
AFA GeneS : James: Command-option-p-r at startup, wait till you
hear at least one extra startup chord.
AFA GeneS : JCooke: You need to be kept informed of the
compatibility issues with those companies and have a
general knowledge of what most often causes problems.
AFA GeneS : I've done that scene myself.
OlsonBros : Anyone know why the mouse button sometimes seems to
stay activated under system 7 until a 2nd click?
AFA GeneS : Olson: Sounds like the switch is sticking, that's
all. Not necessarily a system 7 thing.
JCooke : I have the same problem with a Centris Mouse. I was
told that it was a problem with the mouse itself.
AFL Bear : An easy way to find out if it's the mouse or
something with the software...
OlsonBros : Nope it's not the switch. It is kind of like a hot
cursor until a 2nd click.
AFL Bear : is to carefully remove the mouse plug during a
"stick." If it unsticks, it's the mouse itself. ga
AFA GeneS : (Very carefully...)
AFL Bear : (Do this at your own risk, all standard disclaimers
apply.)
AFA GeneS : Sometimes rapidly clicking the mouse will "free" it.
That is, if it's the mouse switch. :)
OlsonBros : Ok I will try it. However, the same thing happens on
two machines and only under Sys 7.
JCooke : As reported in a major Mac Mag. A series of mice had
problems. They even listed a range of S/N.
AFA GeneS : Well, if it doesn't work, it could be the software.
AFA GeneS : Are these the Mouse II models, JCooke, or the older
models?
OlsonBros : One of each.
JCooke : I believe the Mouse II.
AFA GeneS : I've heard of problems with models with a black ball,
as opposed to a gray one. If that's the case, and it's
a new machine, perhaps you can get a replacement╤if it
is the mouse.
JamesR115 : Booting from a floppy I get the BOMB "Memory Manager
Error". It tells me to turn off extensions? I do so and
get the same thing? HELP
AFA GeneS : James: What kind of Mac, what system version?
JamesR115 : SE/30 & 7.1.
AFA GeneS : Are you using an accelerator board?
JamesR115 : No.
AFA GeneS : But you boot okay from your hard drive, right?
JCooke : What speed SIMMS are you using?
JamesR115 : Yes. 80 I believe.
AFA GeneS : How about your 7.1 Disk Tools..is that okay?
JamesR115 : Yes!?!
AFA GeneS : If so, maybe your floppy startup is bad. Is it for a
specific program?
JamesR115 : Any suggestions for making a new one?
D76 : Do you have any external devices hooked up to the
SE/30?
EGMiller : Are you booting from a System 6.x on the floppy ?
JamesR115 : Local Network.
D76 : Right - but no scanners/ hard drives/ syquests?
AFA GeneS : You say Disk Tools is okay, but the other floppy is
bad. For what purpose is that floppy?
JamesR115 : Yes, CMS Utilities. No external stuff
AFA GeneS : The floppy is for CMS Utilities?
JamesR115 : System 7.1 on the Floppy.
AFA GeneS : Well, maybe you should call the publisher of that
software for a replacement. It may just be a bad disk.
JCooke : Can you run the CMS utility from any other disk? The
utility may not be 7.1 compatible.
JamesR115 : How can I make a minimal 7.1 start up disk?
AFA GeneS : Did you get it from the publisher as a System 7.1
disk?
JamesR115 : Yes.
AFA GeneS : So just call the publisher and ask for a replacement.
Unless you need to reformat something tonight, it's not
worth worrying about, if you are otherwise working
okay.
JamesR115 : OK Thanks!! :)
Katherine : Can I ask a question about hooking a 500MG APS hard
drive to a SE computer?
AFA GeneS : Sure?
Katherine : Will it work?
AFA GeneS : Sure, why not?
Katherine : Let me explain what happened. Well it was given to me
as a gift in September. I ran it off a SE 30 and it
worked fine when I brought it home and hooked it up to
my SI it was dead. The company was great! The fixed it
AFL Bear : Oops! Katherine disappeared. :(
AFA GeneS : Well, I guess that question will remain unanswered
for now ): Let's move to the next topic till she
returns.
Mike4dice : We'll never know!
AFA GeneS : The mysteries of life ever abound!
Easaba : Suitcase ATM and system 7.1 will they ever work?
AFC Oglvie : Easabe: Suitcase 2.1.4, and ATM 3.6 work fine in
conjunction with 7.1.
JCooke : I installed 7.1 on an LC and an SE. On both systems,
several applications crashed
AFA GeneS : JCooke: Which applications?
JCooke : AOL 2.01, Quicken 4 etc...
AFA GeneS : JCooke: Maybe an Extension is fouling it up.
AFA GeneS : JCooke: Send us a list of inits and version numbers
and we'll try to help. One of my online friends swears
by (not at), Quicken 4.
Easaba : What about Now utilities 3.0?
AFC Oglvie : You need 3.0.1p.
AFA GeneS : You mean 4.0.1p Greg.
AFC Oglvie : oops .. sorry Gene .. :P
AFA GeneS : Not certified for 7.1, but 3.0.2 may work.
JCooke : One day they would not launch. I received the error
application unexpectedly quit. Fresh install of 7.1.
Mike4dice : JCooke, i have both those running with 7.1╤no
problem.
JCooke : thanks, I did reinstall.
Easaba : What is apple saying about PowerPC system 7, are we
looking at more problems?
AFA GeneS : Esaba: You're looking at Macs that are several times
faster than the fastest Quadra. I hope and trust the
compatibility issues will be minimal. :)
AFC Oglvie : I have "heard" that they already have many current
applications running just fine on the Like Excel,
Word, MacWrite, PhotoShop, etc ...
AFA GeneS : Katherine: You want to continue with the story of
your problem?
Katherine : It works fine with the si now....I've not tried it
with the SE. Since I don't know what caused the
problem I didn't want to risk getting out of town and
blowing up my 500 mg drive.
AFA GeneS : Well, if it works okay, there's nothing to prevent
you from attaching it to the SE as a test. A working
Mac shouldn't blow up a drive. I've hooked up many
drives with impunity and never ran into any sort of
problem, except for an occasional SCSI conflict. And
that's fixed usually without much trouble. :)
BBreeze : Anybody know why the Apple HD SC setup in the System
update 2.0.1 won't recognize my external?
AFA GeneS : BBreeze: If you don't have an Apple drive, it won't
recognize it.
JCooke : Your external was formatted with a third party
formatter.
BBreeze : Thanks!
Katherine : Ok...I'll try it...But if it blows up I'll be really
annoyed ;)
AFA GeneS : Katherine: Be optimistic. That seldom ever happens.
JCooke : However, APS people are great when you need them.
Katherine : Gene do you remember who you're saying that too?
LOL!
AFA GeneS : Yes, ditto to what JCooke says.
AFA GeneS : If you knew how much hardware and software I plug in
here since becoming a magazine reviewer :) One learns
to stop worrying real fast!
AFC Oglvie : <- never worries ╤ is only happy <grin>
Katherine : <╤-blows up Mac for a living!
AFA GeneS : Sounds like a song title !
AFC Oglvie : <╤ fixes blown up macs for a living .. :)
AFA GeneS : I run software to see if it blows up :) Then I tell the
world if it does :)
AFC Oglvie : <chuckle>
JCooke : I do that now for free.
AFA GeneS : JCooke: There you go :)
AFA GeneS : Okay, gang? Any more questions or comments?
LeslieJonz : Any suggestions for a good UPS?
AFL Bear : I like the Clary units.
AFA GeneS : Cost? Availability?
AFL Bear : I have a 1kw Clary that is fantastic. I think it was
about $1200 last year.
AFA GeneS : Whew! The price of uninterrupted power !
LeslieJonz : yowza!
AFL Bear : :)
LeslieJonz : John: do you recommend a UPS with phone line
protection?
JCooke : If I get zapped, I use Federal Express. New Machine.
AFL Bear : You can get 500 and 750 watters for less, though. I use
a regular filter box for the phone, I don't consider
that a big plus in a UPS.
AFA GeneS : Yeah, I use a special line filter here for my modem
line.
AFL Bear : But the UPS is the best AC line conditioner going. :)
LeslieJonz : How much do line filters cost?
AFA GeneS : The one I have costs around $20 or so, I think.
It's just for the phone/fax line.
AFL Bear : Line filters are anywhere from $6 and up... way up.
AFA GeneS : I have separate power strips for the AC power.
AFL Bear : To get good spike and surge protection, you'll spend
at least $20.
HandPT : One quickie-I'm looking for an updated version of
resedit -is it available for downloading on AOL?
Belok : Gene, where on AOL should i go to get info on buying
a CD ROM drive?
AFA GeneS : Belok: Actually the Mac monthlies had reviews in recent
months on that stuff. But you can check the hardware
forum if you like. The top contender for now is the
Apple CD300, but the new NEC triple-speed sounds
promising.
IleneH : Belok: Mac Home Journal did a comparison review (I
wrote part of it) and The Active Window has a OAI
review.
MacPioneer : Apple woops, Apple CD 300i not too bad.
IleneH : I think NEC never sounds promising ... dislike their
software!
AFA GeneS : I have the Apple CD-ROM myself....
IleneH : for the $$ it is VERY good!
Belok : I've been eying the CD 300 w/ speakers from Apple╤$629.
AFA GeneS : Yes, the multimedia kit!
Belok : Good?
IleneH : a little pricey, considering the CDs may not be
useful to you.
AFA GeneS : The speakers got a decent write-up in Macworld. I
haven't tried them myself.The CD-ROM player is
top-notch.
IleneH : Yup.
Belok : How about their all-in-one PowerCD?
ScottBitck : MacWarehouse has one for $299.
IleneH : NO.
AFA GeneS : PowerCD is not multi-speed.
IleneH : too slllloooooowwwww.
AFA GeneS : Agreed. It's neat for a portable though.
Belok : That's what I thought.
AFA GeneS : But remember, compared to the slowest hard drive, all
CD-ROMs, even multispeed units, are slow!
EGMiller : At $600+ I think I would put the $ into a CPU with
internal CD-ROM.
Belok : Should one wait for the 3X speeds, like NECs?
AFA GeneS : The difference between an external CD-300 and buying a
Mac with an internal model is nearly non-existent.
AFA GeneS : I don't know, Belok. I haven't seen the reviews yet.
$600 plus gets you a lot more than the CD-ROM. You
get speakers, disks, etc.
EGMiller : Gene - yes unless the next CPU you really want is
priced nicely w the CD.
Belok : I guess I'm wondering if a 2X speed would quickly be
"out-of-date."
AFA GeneS : Of course. Belok: Depends on what you use it for.
If it's just to install software, fonts, or bring stuff
to your hard drive....no it won't.
Belok : That 629 price did include the speakers╤the Apple CD
300 is about 399 by itself
AFA GeneS : Even a so-called triple speed isn't very fast in the
scheme of things.
Belok : OK, Gene. So my kids version of "Just Grandma & Me"
won't necessarily run any faster, huh?
AFA GeneS : But it's a heck of a way to package software.
EGMiller : I think speed is a moot point. In a few years hard
disks will be big enuf to copy the stuff over from.
AFA GeneS : Well, something with music and video is only going to
run at a fixed speed.
IleneH : If you use FWB's software Grandma may run a little
faster.
EGMiller : CD, but as a distro medium I think CD is the wave of
the future.
AFA GeneS : Ilene: But the Apple was tested with that software,
and it ran no faster.
IleneH : Really!
AFA GeneS : Apple's own CD ROM software has it's own caching
scheme.
IleneH : oops, sorry...
CAD Mike : What software?
AFA GeneS : FWB CD-ROM Toolkit.
CAD Mike : Which Apple?
IleneH : CD 300i.
AFA GeneS : MacWeek tested the FWB product....and the Apple was
still the fastest (without it).
Suzette001 : Is this open Questions or am I in a waiting Line???
AFA GeneS : Suzette: Kind of a free chat. Just jump in.
Suzette001 : well...I have a question about quick time?
AFA GeneS : Sure, go ahead.
Suzette001 : I have an LC with a 12 inch ( I think ) Color monitor
and have quick time 1.6. And I am only getting part of
a program to show on the screen. Any thoughts???
IleneH : QT 1.6 or 1.6.1?
AFA GeneS : The QuickTime Extension is just a tool...it allows
other programs to use QuickTime. You need a movie
player program.
Suzette001 : It is 1.6.1. I was on a CD I just bought called Mega
Rock, Rap n Roll
Suzette001 : I tried it on another machine and it worked fine but
it had a 14 inch monitor.
EGMiller : - some programs assume that they are playing on a 13"
or larger screen without checking to see if that really
the case.
AFA GeneS : It should work fine on your computer also, unless it
won't accept the 12" monitor size.
Suzette001 : it appears the program thinks I am still using a 14
inch screen.
AFA GeneS : Then that's it. It's up to the software publishers to
write that code into their stuff.
EGMiller : - Lazy programmers are at fault, not Quicktime.
AFA GeneS : Right.
Suzette001 : So is there any way to use it???
AFA GeneS : Contact the publisher of the software. Or get a 14"
monitor. Prices have come down now.
Suzette001 : OK thanks.
EGMiller : Programmers who violate Apple's guidelines should be
forced to pay for a new 13" monitor for everyone
who bought a 12"
AFL Bear : Niters, folks!